110 - Pursuing Both Motherhood and Entrepreneurship with Joy Michelle of Called to Both Podcast
LISTEN TO THE EPISODE HERE:
Joy Michelle joins us for an inspiring conversation about Pursuing Both Motherhood and Entrepreneurship! Our conversation today is going to be inspiring for anyone who is going through a transition in their business or life or for someone who is thinking of becoming a Mom and wondering what that means for their business.
We dive into Joy’s journey of running a successful Photography business and then pivoting to teaching, creating content, coaching, and online courses. We also dive into her schedule as an Entrepreneur and Mom of two and how she gets help in both her personal life and her business.
Joy is a photographer turned YouTuber + Business coach. She’s a mom to 2 online course creator, host of the Called to Both podcast and founder of Photoboss®.She helps photographers + Creatives go from passionate to profitable through weekly YouTube videos, her Facebook group called PhotoBoss (with over 10k members), and her online programs.
Connect with Joy:
https://www.instagram.com/joyymichelle/
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC-Ou6jRKxcjMrVMxWxLO_fQ
Photoboss FB Group: facebook.com/groups/photoboss
Freebies:
https://learn.joymichellephotography.com/biz-planning-guide
https://learn.joymichellephotography.com/power-hour-checklist
Following your passion & Embracing the pivot
Joy Michelle's entrepreneurial journey began when she decided to pursue photography instead of a traditional design job. She followed her passion and immersed herself in learning through online resources and webinars. Joy's photography business thrived, but she realized her heart was leading her toward education and mentoring other photographers. This shift led her to start a YouTube channel and launch a digital course, eventually culminating in the creation of her education brand, Photo Boss.
Forced to change
The pandemic became a turning point for Joy. It forced her to reevaluate her priorities and make a brave decision to go all-in on her education business. She had to let go of her wedding photography business, which had been her main source of income.
Making a clear decision
Joy emphasizes the importance of making a firm decision to pursue your passion and draw a line in the sand. She encourages listeners to trust their instincts and follow the path that ignites their inner fire.
Starting from scratch
Joy's journey taught her the value of embracing being a beginner again. She found herself starting from zero with a podcast, a new domain, and a new email account. Embracing the challenges and learning from them builds self-trust and resilience.
Balancing motherhood and entrepreneurship
Joy initially had concerns about how motherhood would impact her business and personal identity. However, she discovered that she could have both by creating a schedule that allows for intentional work and quality time with her children.
Embracing challenges & Redefining Success:
Joy acknowledges that challenges are part of the entrepreneurial journey and necessary for personal growth and success. She encourages listeners to embrace challenges as opportunities for growth rather than viewing them as obstacles. Joy emphasizes the importance of debunking the notion that success must fit a specific mold. Personal reflections and redefining success based on individual values and priorities. Joy highlights the need to separate societal expectations from personal definitions of success.
Seeking Help in Business and Personal Life:
Joy shares her journey of seeking help and delegating tasks in her business and personal life& Joy's realization that she needed support to focus on her strengths and become a visionary.
Outsourcing cleaning and gradually expanding to include childcare.
Transitioning from being a solo entrepreneur to building a team.
Overcoming Discomfort and Growth:
The discomfort of stepping into a leadership role and feeling ill-equipped & Joy's growth journey and embracing the challenges of leading a team.The importance of not letting feelings of inadequacy prevent you from seeking help and growing your business.
Adapting and Embracing Change:
The ever-changing nature of life and business. The liberating feeling of adjusting business models to align with personal life. Embracing flexibility and adapting to new circumstances.
The Value of Quiet Reflection and Vision:
Carving out white space and reflecting on the business vision.
The importance of planning, dreaming, and reevaluating goals.
Recognizing that change is possible and that you are not stuck in your current situation.
Our Top Business Resources to Support Female Entrepreneurs:
Masterclass: Learn how to Scale a Profitable Business Without Working Around The Clock
Action Takers Club: Our Signature Business Course + Community to Support you in Scaling a Profitable Business
Mastermind: An Intimate VIP Group Experience for Successful Entrepreneurs
Business Coaching: One-on-One Business Strategy and Collaboration Consulting with Danielle Wiebe
Free Resources and Recommended Business Tools, Courses and Services
Connect on Instagram:
Connect with Danielle Wiebe @danilivinglife
Connect with Business Babes Collective @businessbabesco
Have a Question & Want to be Featured on The Podcast?
TRANSCRIPT
[00:00:00] Danielle Wiebe: Today on the podcast we have Joy Michelle joining us for an inspiring conversation about pursuing both motherhood and entrepreneurship. Joy is a photographer turned Youtuber and business coach. She is a mom of two, an online course creator, the host of called to both podcast and the founder of Photoboss.
[00:00:20] She helps photographers and creatives go from passionate to profitable through weekly YouTube videos, her Facebook group called Photo Boss and Her Online Programs. Our conversation today is going to be so inspiring for anyone who is going through a transition in their business or their life or someone who is thinking about becoming a mom and wondering what that means for their business.
[00:00:44] We dive into Joy's journey of running a successful photography business and then pivoting to teaching, creating content, coaching and online courses. We also dive into her schedule as an entrepreneur and a mom of two and how she [00:01:00] gets help in both her personal life and her business. I think you guys are going to absolutely love this episode, and I know you're gonna be so encouraged by this conversation.
[00:01:08] So before we jump into the episode today, I wanted to share something really, really exciting. If you guys are new to the podcast, you might not know, but we have started to bring back our in-person events. And so currently we are putting some plans in place for events in both Vancouver and San Diego.
[00:01:27] So if you wanna learn more about our events, if you wanna get on the wait list. If you want first access to tickets, go to businessbabescollective.com/vancouver. If you're wanting to know about the events happening in Vancouver and businessbabescollective.com/sandiego. If you wanna get on the wait list for San Diego, this is such a great way that we can meet in person, that we can connect, that we can network.
[00:01:52] And if you are actually interested in getting involved in any of those events, then definitely connect with us. You can actually apply right [00:02:00] on our website to become a vendor or a sponsor for one of our events. We would love to hear from you, so go head over to our website, get on our waitlist. And we can't wait to see you in person. Okay, now it's time for our episode. Let's get started.
[00:02:14] Welcome to the Business Babes Collective podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Wiebe. In this podcast, you'll learn tangible business tips and strategies on how to grow successfully and sustainably. We'll also interview seasoned entrepreneurs so you can listen in on their stories and see behind the scenes of what it took to grow and scale their businesses. Let's dive in as we discuss the wild, crazy, challenging rollercoaster ride of entrepreneurship.
[00:02:44] Hi Joy. Welcome to the Business Babes Collective podcast. I am so excited to have you here today.
[00:02:49] Joy Michelle: Thank you so much for having me. I am excited too.
[00:02:52] Danielle Wiebe: Okay, I can't wait to dive in. So let's just go ahead and I would love for you to share a little bit more about you, more about your [00:03:00] business. How did you get into entrepreneurship?
[00:03:02] Joy Michelle: Okay. This is a winding story.
[00:03:06] Danielle Wiebe: I love it.
[00:03:06] Joy Michelle: Started back when I was 21. I was newly married, a senior in high or in college? High school. No college. I was actually majoring in graphic design and I was at this point where, you know, everyone's getting ready to get jobs and I had just gotten married, just worked with my wedding photographer and people are around the table in classes working on, you know, their portfolios and their cover letters and all their things.
[00:03:33] And I am sitting there researching all the other options of what I can do instead of working a design job. Because I just, I didn't want to, like, in my soul, I was looking for something else to do and I had asked myself, you know, what, what, what do we know?
[00:03:50] What do we have in our skill set? And it just kind of, photography popped up for me and so, I started following a bunch of other photographers online, reading [00:04:00] blogs and watching like any free webinar that I could get my hands on, and that's what led me down this road of photography. So instead of getting a real job, quote unquote, I opened the doors on my photography business in 2013.
[00:04:15] I was fresh out of college and within a year I was full time, booked with weddings and working all around the Annapolis, Maryland, like East coast region and was starting to be featured in publications like Style Me Pretty and Wedding Chicks and Martha Stewart Weddings and did that for a few years, just head down was hell-bent on being my own boss.
[00:04:39] And within a couple years it was just a wild journey and around 2016, I wanna say, I started making YouTube videos, honestly, because my brother told me to, and he at the time was a YouTuber and had this big following and he just kept telling me, Joy, you have to make YouTube videos. So. [00:05:00] I started doing it, you can still see those first cringe worthy videos.
[00:05:05] Danielle Wiebe: I love it. when you go back and watch your very first videos .
[00:05:08] Joy Michelle: Yes. Sort by oldest. And you'll see a very stiff and you know, just uncertain girl just standing there. And they're, they're so old. And I go back and it like, if I ever wanna see how far I've come, I can just go back on my YouTube channel. And that really kicked off what was like the second chapter of my business.
[00:05:28] So starting a YouTube channel and almost inadvertently an education brand where I was educating photographers on how to do what I had done and start from nothing and build a brand. And I launched my first digital course after that. And that grew into a big Facebook group community called Photo Boss.
[00:05:46] And last year that kind of came full circle because I was able to obtain the trademark on Photo Boss. And so everything kind of came to this transitionary point where I had a full-time wedding business, I had a full-time [00:06:00] education business and I had one little girl and I, I realized I needed to just like make this shift. And then the pandemic happened.
[00:06:11] Danielle Wiebe: Wow.
[00:06:11] Joy Michelle: And so a lot of stuff was working at the same time. And what started as like a very slow pivot then became this, this moment of like, okay, it's, it's sink or swim, it's time to go all in on education. Um, and so I was basically forced to really double down on everything that I had developed with Photo Boss and the YouTube channel and being a content creator.
[00:06:35] And then, you know, All of that. Um, I got pregnant with my second and had my son and, um, just two weeks before he was born in last year, we rebranded away from Joy Michelle Photography to Joy Michelle Co. So new website, new domain, like really stepping out away from that like mature established domain that we had had for years [00:07:00] and, two weeks later, I had my son.
[00:07:02] And so that kind of brings us to today. So here now in my business, I educate photographers on the photo boss side and I run a podcast named called to both for women entrepreneurs who are also mothers and wanna do both with intentionality.
[00:07:15] Danielle Wiebe: So good. So good. I love that. And I love your story. I mean it's, it's similar in some ways to my story as well, just being forced to change. Like forced to do something different. And I think sometimes we are forced to do that. And if we don't have that decision made for us, it's gonna take us a long time to make that decision. And then sometimes circumstances happen. Whether it be, yeah, having a baby or a global pandemic or other things happening in our lives that just kind of make that decision for us, and I am personally so grateful that I was forced to make that decision, and I'm sure you are probably too, because,
[00:07:58] do you think that, if [00:08:00] you didn't, you would still maybe try to rely on that photography income, cuz that's a scary thing to just like go all in. Or do you think it would just maybe be a slower process?
[00:08:10] Joy Michelle: I think it would've been slower. It was already happening. I was already taking on less and less weddings and it's crazy because, 2020, I decided I'm only gonna book weddings the first half of the year, and then I was putting a hard stop. I wasn't gonna do the crazy fall season. And this was like, of course, before we knew what would happen. And I, so the second half of my year was completely open and I said, I'm gonna launch another course. I'm gonna open a group coaching program.
[00:08:37] Like we're gonna do all the things that we've been talking about but just haven't had the bandwidth for. And then the pandemic happened, and so those weddings got rescheduled to the fall because, you know, those brands are like, Hey, we have to move to the fall, not knowing that weddings weren't gonna happen in the fall either.
[00:08:53] So like it began, it became like this kicking the can down the road. And I had to come to this point [00:09:00] eventually of, of saying, We're not gonna reschedule anymore. We're not gonna like accept for 2021 and 2022. I don't know if we will be able to, but I know I'm not able to and I had to almost like draw that line.
[00:09:13] But I think it was easier because of how everything just kind of got magnified during,
[00:09:19] Danielle Wiebe: Right.
[00:09:19] Joy Michelle: The pandemic. We had to sit down and say like, do I enjoy this enough to continue to fight to keep it alive after this? Because there will be an after this, but like, do I enjoy it enough? That answer was no. You know the answer was like, I've got to lean into like the things that are like setting my heart on fire, and that's over here.
[00:09:38] Danielle Wiebe: Amazing. Amazing. I love that you said that. I think it can probably relate to so many people, whether they are in a position right now where they have something going on in their business, or maybe they're in a job and they're wanting to start a business. And it's just that like turning point where you make the decision, and I don't know about you, but for me it's [00:10:00] like you have to make that clear and hard decision, and then you're like, Hey, I'm all in.
[00:10:05] Joy Michelle: Yeah,
[00:10:05] Danielle Wiebe: and that's like the catalyst helps stir up your passion too, because then you can really see yourself, you can see the vision of where you're going and all the things that kind of need to happen, like to make that a reality. And you know, as we both know in entrepreneurship, there's so many different things that you have to do and think about and, you know, challenges that you have to overcome and all of that.
[00:10:29] And so you need that excitement and passion to really pull you through the challenges, I think. And so, yeah, I, I just wanted to, kind of, encourage anyone that is feeling maybe that stir in them of, Okay, I know I wanna do this. I, I have like butterflies in my stomach when I think about it. Make that decision because
[00:10:52] Joy Michelle: yeah,
[00:10:52] Danielle Wiebe: you need to really just draw a line in the sand kind of like you did. So thanks for sharing.
[00:10:57] Joy Michelle: I. Yeah. The way I think about it is [00:11:00] like I have to put rules in place, or else when I get an inquiry, I'm gonna feel immediately like I want to accommodate it, even though I know that might not serve the bigger vision or it might not serve the direction I'm trying to go in. And sometimes it's as simple as going on my website and like changing an offer or changing the messaging.
[00:11:19] It's like we know that there's this shift happening or like a pivot happening, and the bravest thing is just us. Like it's inside that we have to like make that decision and step into that before it can really start to reveal itself. It's like we just, you can't see the whole path and that's, that's the leap.
[00:11:35] That's where it's like it truly is a brave thing to step into something new. But you know, just like you said, you kind of know, you can feel those butterflies. You. And you're, the pool is there and it's, it's just whether or not you're going to follow it.
[00:11:50] Danielle Wiebe: Yeah. And sometimes you have to like take some steps back in order to move forward.
[00:11:55] I know that was, that was true for us. We had to take some steps back and that was really [00:12:00] scary because the revenue that we had, it was like, okay, and we didn't have a choice in the matter, but it was really scary because it's like we're used to this level. We're used to, you know, having this income coming in and everything kind of working like clockwork and we had created systems and all of that. And then, you know, starting from scratch is really terrifying because I remembered starting from scratch and I started my business the first time. So it was like, Oh man, I'm doing this again. Like,
[00:12:29] Joy Michelle: yeah, yeah,
[00:12:29] Danielle Wiebe: this is gonna be interesting. But I mean, I wouldn't change it for the world.
[00:12:34] Joy Michelle: I mean, being a beginner again has been like the theme of, I would say 2021 and 2022 for me, starting from zero on a podcast, starting from zero on a new domain. You know, starting a new email account and having like literally nothing. You know, like it just reminds you of those like humble beginnings.
[00:12:53] And it just reminds me that, We're just, we're never done learning as entrepreneurs. Like you can be in the game for a long time and [00:13:00] then, you know, be knocked back a little bit when you, life happens, or a baby happens, or, you know, just situations change. But it, it's so important. I think it builds self-trust though, because then when you see that you can do it again, you start to feel like you can literally do anything.
[00:13:17] Danielle Wiebe: Absolutely. And it is the challenges that make us better and that allow us to experience the type of success that the we're, we're looking for. Because if we don't experience those challenges, we're not gonna be, we're not gonna have the capacity to experience the success either. So I think that's so important.
[00:13:36] I would love to dive into motherhood and being a mom and an entrepreneur, and obviously I'm a mom and entrepreneur and we have lots of people in our community who are moms or maybe wanting to become moms. So tell us a little bit about what that looks like. I mean, you had one when you were kind of in that transition and then you were pregnant with your second.
[00:13:58] So I would love to [00:14:00] maybe just even hear about maybe some of the thoughts that you had or worries that you had, and then diving into what does, what does your schedule look like right now and how does that kind of balance work?
[00:14:13] Joy Michelle: Yeah, I'd be happy to. So, I had a business, the wedding business for six years or, Yeah, around that before I had kids, and in that time I thought, I'm not sure if I want kids.
[00:14:29] I'm not sure where a baby would fit into my life. and like one big fear that came up for me was, am I still gonna want my business? Am I still gonna be ambitious? Am I still gonna be what I felt like was me? You know, like it's very identity based and once I have kids, am I still gonna want this? And that was super scary for me to think that I might not.
[00:14:52] So navigating all of that and navigating this whole, like, can I have both of these things? Is it available to me? But also should I [00:15:00] be allowed to ask for both of these things was something that I wrestled with a lot and ultimately I came to this.
[00:15:07] I get a little far ahead of myself. I try to get all the ducks in a row and figure out exactly how it's all gonna go and where the pieces are gonna be, and I wanna plan it out. And ultimately, you absolutely can't when it comes to kids, when it comes to growing your family and life and business. And so eventually I just stopped holding on so tight and just kind of like opened up my hands and said like, All right, let's, let's see where this goes.
[00:15:32] I know that I'm, I need to be a mother because like, that's part of what I'm being called to, and I'm just gonna see what happened.
[00:15:38] Danielle Wiebe: Mm-hmm.
[00:15:38] Joy Michelle: And so I was eventually able to like, accept the idea that I could do both. I could take on more roles, and so, I had my little girl, Clara, and in 2019 and was still doing weddings, pumping in the bathroom while, you know, the reception's happening and just doing all of it and really just kept adding and adding.
[00:15:58] And I realized the other day [00:16:00] that's really the the point where I no longer worked full-time. So I haven't worked full-time in my business in four years. It's like I didn't even realize or like consciously think about that really. But like that is a remarkable shift that's happened, that I'm able to work part-time, but the business continues to grow and it is profitable.
[00:16:21] And so I think one of the things I really had to let go of was this notion that I wasn't gonna be able to be successful if I worked less. And equating this, Oh, it has to be this way. I have to work this much. I have to have these kind of prices. I have to be able to work outside the home on these certain days.
[00:16:39] It's like we limit ourselves so much as to like what success could look like, but also that it needs to take a certain amount of time. It's just a ridiculous notion. So, One thing I really learned was that I'm actually like way more productive after having children and after cutting my work hours, essentially in half, probably more, like who knows how much I even worked before having kids.
[00:16:59] Cuz I [00:17:00] loved it. It didn't feel like this big burden. I just, I could throw myself into my work in the best way and, you know, take the time off when I needed it. That was such a shift to have to like schedule work and not be the creative anymore. As so much as like when you're feeling it, you have to kind of work when childcare is there, right?
[00:17:21] Danielle Wiebe: Yes.
[00:17:22] Joy Michelle: Um, so I think that was, that was a big shift and just accepting that I could be more than one thing and I can be more than one thing. Well, and I mean, that's really what birth the podcast because it was my own doubt of I want both of these things and so like called to both and I felt called to both motherhood and business just kept coming up for me.
[00:17:44] And I, I just thought, you know, I can't be the only one who just feels absolutely torn over these two things. But then, you know, years down the road is realizing like we don't have to be torn and it doesn't have to look the way she's built it. It doesn't have to look the way, you know, he's [00:18:00] built it or I've built it.
[00:18:01] Like we can find our own harmony of what that can look like for our businesses. And so that's been just a really life-giving journey to, to like allow other women like yourself, like you're gonna be on the podcast next week, and so to share like what that looks like for you because it's so life-giving to hear how other people have navigated this and it, it's like everybody's gonna have a different story, but it all comes to this, the same finish line of you're still pursuing what you're being called to, and that's a beautiful thing.
[00:18:30] Danielle Wiebe: Yeah. So good. And I love that so much because I definitely had so many of the same feelings and I know there's a lot of people listening who maybe are having those feelings right now or had those feelings before they had kids.
[00:18:45] And I totally agree with you as far as I feel like, it's just not even an option. I have to be productive in the time that I have. And I I love that you said [00:19:00] that you had to let go because I'm the same way. I'm like a control freak. And I think a lot of people on the podcast have that kind of perfectionist like tendency, right?
[00:19:09] As an entrepreneur, you want, you wanna have a plan, you wanna know exactly what's gonna happen. and with motherhood it is so day to day is different, right?
[00:19:21] Joy Michelle: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.
[00:19:22] Danielle Wiebe: like a kid gets sick or
[00:19:24] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:19:24] Danielle Wiebe: You know, childcare falls through or whatever happens and you have to be able to be adaptable.
[00:19:31] Joy Michelle: Mm-hmm.
[00:19:31] Danielle Wiebe: And I think that's like one of the things, cuz going back to what we talked about before in, you know, experiencing challenges and really, you know, having that experience.
[00:19:39] I think, as a mom, we really need to. We're, we have to think quickly and we have to make decisions quickly, and I also think that makes us a better entrepreneur. Like I think the, the fact that we have so much on the go all the time and we're needing to like, [00:20:00] organize both like our life and our businesses, there's so many challenges that come up with that, I think. But also it allows us to be, like you said, be productive in the time that we have.
[00:20:11] And I think, a lot of the times I get more done and sometimes I think before kids I'm like, What was I doing all day?
[00:20:19] Joy Michelle: Yes.
[00:20:20] Danielle Wiebe: Like, what was I doing really? Because I must have been wasting a lot of time.
[00:20:27] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:20:27] Danielle Wiebe: Doing other things. And so sometimes when we're given less time, we actually are able to get more done. So I would love to hear what your thoughts are on that and like productivity, because I think a lot of people that are about to become parents are, are a little bit nervous about that.
[00:20:42] Joy Michelle: Oh my gosh. Well, it, I, Everything that you're saying is true and it, it's actually Parkinson's law that tasks expand to fill the amount of time that you give them. So if you give yourself twice as long to complete something, it would take twice as long, and I have found this to be true, be [00:21:00] just by the sheer necessity of saying like, we only have this block of time.
[00:21:06] Or that feeling of like, okay, baby monitors on the desk. I'm here typing like, let's use this as a personal challenge. Like how many emails can I get done right now? Whereas like before, the way that I worked was probably very scattered. It was probably half watching Netflix, half answering emails.
[00:21:22] Danielle Wiebe: Yeah.
[00:21:22] Joy Michelle: Texting my friends and that was okay for that season. But now when I come into my office, I am the visionary and the founder of Joy Michelle Co. And there's no room for all of that. And it, in a way, it's caused so much more clarity. Like you said, you think a lot less, you're in your head a lot less about decisions because you know that no one little tiny decision is gonna make or break the entire company.
[00:21:45] You have like more self-trust in what you have built.
[00:21:48] Danielle Wiebe: Yeah.
[00:21:48] Joy Michelle: And that nothing is truly like irreversible. It's like you have a perspective on those decisions and you have to work quickly. And because of that, you get that muscle of making those decisions gets [00:22:00] honed in. So that's really true and amazing.
[00:22:02] But you talked about getting more done and having less time and just like being more productive when you work. And I will say though, like very granularly, Having a project management tool is so important. Having one central location for everything in your company. I used to be a paper planner girl. I used to be 500 notebooks and sticky notes and just like, Woo, artist.
[00:22:26] You know? Now everything is in notion, and I, I used to say, if it's not a notion, it's not real. If we haven't put it in there, it's not real.
[00:22:34] Danielle Wiebe: Yes.
[00:22:35] Joy Michelle: That has really helped me because I think as moms, we are carrying a mental load that is hard to articulate as to how many things we are thinking about and weighing and deciding on, and remembering that you really do need to get that stuff out of your head and somewhere that you know it's safe.
[00:22:53] It is accessible from your phone on the go. It's gonna be there when you get back. And so sometimes I have to say that to [00:23:00] myself cuz I know you, you never get to the bottom of the to-do list as the entrepreneur.
[00:23:04] Danielle Wiebe: Yeah.
[00:23:04] Joy Michelle: You just don't. It has like a false bottom and so sometimes I say it'll be there.
[00:23:08] Danielle Wiebe: Yeah.
[00:23:08] Joy Michelle: Like we won't forget any of it. It's still gonna be there. You don't have to get to the bottom of it cuz I have this need to, want to try to like close the loop. But yeah, having a project management tool has been super helpful. Very important also for helping to bring on help with your team, you know, the more organized you can be, I think the more efficient you'll be just by yourself, but also the more efficient your team can be to help you and you need help.
[00:23:32] I think realizing when you step into this role of like motherhood and ceo, you have to think of like, Both of those worlds need help. I want help at home. There is no shame in having a cleaning person or grocery delivery or childcare or help in any of these areas where I can just not have to be everything.
[00:23:52] And one quote that really stood, stood out to me lately was, I don't have to get, I don't have to get everything done, I [00:24:00] just have to make sure it gets done. And so it's like we're managing,
[00:24:05] Danielle Wiebe: you know, you're the CEO of your house and your
[00:24:07] Joy Michelle: your entire life
[00:24:08] Danielle Wiebe: and business.
[00:24:09] Joy Michelle: Yes.
[00:24:10] Danielle Wiebe: And that is so true. And I love, I really love that you brought that up because I think we as women can often put this pressure on ourselves that like we have to be the homemaker, we have to be, you know, amazing at laundry and we have to like be the best at everything and run a successful business and bring in income. It's like all of these pressures that we put on ourselves, and I think that's what often, I don't, I know for me, for example, like that's what often causes the anxiety of feeling like I'm maybe not doing enough or
[00:24:42] Joy Michelle: mm-hmm.
[00:24:42] Danielle Wiebe: I'm failing in certain areas is because I'm feeling like I need to do all the things.
[00:24:47] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:24:48] Danielle Wiebe: And so, yeah. I love that you said like getting help with all those things and asking for help and, and asking for help from a spouse. And
[00:24:55] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:24:55] Danielle Wiebe: You know, figuring out what are those roles and what can they take on because you're a [00:25:00] working person too. And
[00:25:01] Joy Michelle: yeah,
[00:25:02] Danielle Wiebe: that is important to have those conversations. So I would love to hear your transition of what that looked like when you started to implement some of those things. Like was that, um, uncomfortable for you to maybe ask for help or start to hire out some of those things? And when did you start hiring as far as in your business and then also personal things like you said? Maybe childcare or cleaning or food delivery, that sort of thing.
[00:25:28] Joy Michelle: Yeah, I think I had to like debunk a lot of these ideas that it needed to look a certain way or that in order for it to be right I had to do it. That I'm not a air quotes like good mom if I didn't make the food or it didn't take a certain amount of time, like it's very strange what we assign to ourselves as this is what success has to look like.
[00:25:49] So, regularly, I kind of have to like take it apart and sit down and like get quiet with myself and think about what, what is really success? Not success on [00:26:00] Instagram, not success if my mom looked in the house, like success for me and for my husband because we're in this together. It's really not the one hour meal every single night that we all have to, you know, it, you have to get specific.
[00:26:12] So that, that's something that has helped me is to regularly look back and then say, But do I actually have to be the one to do all these things? So I would say in the home, one of the first things that I got help for was cleaning, for sure. Childcare. I mean, that started out so few hours. Like it just, you know, when you're a new mom and I was straddling two brands at the time and not really sure what I needed as far as childcare hours.
[00:26:37] So it Started out just two mornings a week with, you know, I don't know, like four hours or something. And it slowly grew to what is now my four days a week, just the morning's 20 hour schedule.
[00:26:48] Danielle Wiebe: Amazing.
[00:26:48] Joy Michelle: And so on the business side of things, in terms of outsourcing, I would say I was very much a solo entrepreneur through and through when I was doing photography full time, I did [00:27:00] outsource some editing. I outsourced more of project by project. So had someone come in and help me with Pinterest, but then they would step out, um, or come in and do, you know, a website refreshed or things like that. And I feel like it wasn't until I was bringing on like YouTube and other like big pieces of content where I started feeling this need for help, but like on a more consistent level.
[00:27:24] So I would say the video editing was something that I started outsourcing, but I did probably edit like my first a hundred videos and that was something I just had to learn and, and get over the tech hurdle of being a still photographer. And then moving to, now we have a mic and a video and we're doing post production.
[00:27:42] Okay. What are we doing? I don't know. Here we are. I think it wasn't until this identity shift of me saying, I am gonna step into this education role. I'm gonna step into being a business coach and a course creator, and all of these things that I really thought like, let's get a team, let's get, uh, people that are [00:28:00] actually gonna be working in the business every day so that I feel supported and not it's all on me and that I could kind of shift my attention to the visionary and the content creation and like thinking what can only I do?
[00:28:14] And that is like such a beautiful, but like painful transition, at least for me, of wanting to sit in that like CEO chair, but also like, Not knowing how to lead a team and onboard and be a leader, it would truly be a leader.
[00:28:28] And you know, I, I would say to my husband, like, I'm in over my head. I'm a wedding photographer. These people are looking to me and it, the pressure is there. So it's been such a growth journey for myself, and I, I love it. I, I really love the feeling of I'm expanding and I'm growing and I'm being stretched.
[00:28:46] And I think so many entrepreneurs, so many ambitious women feel that, And I think if you feel ill-equipped to lead your team or to like hire someone or even interview them, don't let that stop you. That does not mean that you cannot grow [00:29:00] a team. That doesn't mean that you should just stay in it alone, or, you know, even if you can only have someone come for, you know, this many hours a month or for this task, I, I think it's so liberating to have someone come in and like, finally get it right and figure out you, you have all those growing pains, but then when you get it right, It is so nice to not be in your business alone.
[00:29:19] I will say, I don't know if you have a similar experience.
[00:29:21] Danielle Wiebe: Yes, absolutely. Totally. I, It's so funny because I literally had a flashback of the first time I hired someone and, I literally had my mom come with me at like, my mom was with me in the interview cuz I was like, I can't do this interview. And then like, my mom, my mom's done tons of interviews before, like, she's gonna help me.
[00:29:42] And you know, of course at the time she would consult me on things in my business. So I'm like, I'm gonna bring my mom in and she's gonna help me hire. Cuz I was also the type of person where I, I and I still, I love people so much, so it's really hard for me to make an actual educated decision on [00:30:00] who I'm gonna hire and who I'm not.
[00:30:01] And so I just wanna be like friends with everybody.
[00:30:04] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:30:04] Danielle Wiebe: So that. Just, uh, such a funny memory that I have of Yeah. Bringing my mom in and then I remember, yeah, the first time we put out something to hire, we got a lot of applicants, which is really exciting, but also so overwhelming for me. And exactly like what you said, that is totally what I felt in over my head. And like, I am not ready for this?
[00:30:24] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:30:24] Danielle Wiebe: Like I don't, I don't feel prepared. And also I don't feel prepared to lead. And I think for me it has been totally a growth thing. And when I became a mom too, I almost felt like I was starting from scratch again because
[00:30:38] Joy Michelle: mm-hmm.
[00:30:39] Danielle Wiebe: when I was a boss before I was a mom, it was easier to communicate and put systems in place and all those things. So, When I had such a limited time, it was like, okay, I need to delegate properly. I need to make sure that people know what they're doing. But then I don't have as much time as I did before, so it was like just [00:31:00] learning all over again for me anyways. But man, it is so good. Like you said, it is so important.
[00:31:07] And I think even having a mixture, like I, I think a lot of people think they have to decide, okay, I'm either gonna hire employees or I'm going to have contractors. Like you can do a little bit of a mix of both. Or, I love what you said near the beginning of this is figure out what works for you. Like it doesn't have to be what works for someone else. Like figure out what is going to work for you in your particular situation and run with that. So love it. Thanks for,
[00:31:32] Joy Michelle: Yeah. I mean, so much of finding out what works for you is finding. Where you work best and how you work best and what tasks derail you and just almost like becoming a student of yourself.
[00:31:44] And I love when you said it felt like starting over after having a baby. And I think that's, I feel that like when I had my second too, I, you know, the business was a bit different, but it, it just felt different every time. You, you like are reborn a little bit too, and I think the business looks different and [00:32:00] something that I like wrote in one of my business journals recently I was, The business you have today is not the business you will have a year from now.
[00:32:07] Danielle Wiebe: Right.
[00:32:08] Joy Michelle: Just leaving room for that to have, leaving room for things to grow or you know, step back, even like you mentioned. Sometimes you step back a little bit in your offerings or in your income, and that does not mean that you're not still moving forward.
[00:32:21] You just have to reestablish the path. It's just, it's not this beautiful linear trajection that I think we are
[00:32:28] Danielle Wiebe: The charts that just go up!,
[00:32:30] Joy Michelle: those beautiful charts. Like, I'm sorry, that's not what my business has ever looked like. And I honestly haven't met an entrepreneur that has that one of those charts in their story either.
[00:32:39] Danielle Wiebe: Mm-hmm.
[00:32:40] Joy Michelle: so kind of just dismissing that and, and leaving room for things to look a little bit different than they have the year before. Because like you said, everything is constantly changing with kids. It's like, just when the schedule like settles, something else comes up. And then there's just so much that you have to become so flexible.
[00:32:56] And I've had to change the business model to support [00:33:00] my life, and that has been really life giving to just know that nothing that I'm building and none of the people that I'm serving and helping and it, none of that feels life or death or something you cannot reschedule. And that feels really freeing for me.
[00:33:15] Danielle Wiebe: Mm-hmm.
[00:33:15] Joy Michelle: Um, especially coming from an events world where you are dealing with somebody's like biggest, most expensive day of their life and that can feel somewhat heavy and it, it should be cuz it's a big deal for them. And it was a big deal for me. But I know now as a mom, that's one thing that has really influenced my business decisions is not just like what's fun and exciting or what's she doing over there.
[00:33:36] It's really does this support my average Tuesday? Does this support, like what I want things to look and feel like if one of the kids gets sick or if I'm needed and the answer's gonna be different for everyone. It doesn't make it right or wrong, it's just you have to like get quiet and listen and really carving out that white space, I think is one of the things that goes first when you work extremely limited hours.
[00:33:57] It could be really, really easy to just [00:34:00] stop the vision casting and the white space in your calendar because you're trying to sardine everything in there as far as your meetings and all the things you wanna get done. But I will say that time spent planning and dreaming is actually worth more to me now, dare I say, absolutely, than a marketing activity, which is wild because I love myself, some good marketing , but you've got to get quiet every once in a while and just get back in touch with the vision.
[00:34:26] And is it, does it still look good? Does it still feel good? And what can I do now? And not thinking I'm stuck. I'm here and I'm stuck in it. This is how it's gonna look forever.
[00:34:36] Danielle Wiebe: Absolutely. Ugh, everything you said is so good because I, I, I literally can pinpoint times in my business where I, where I felt stuck, you know?
[00:34:45] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:34:45] Danielle Wiebe: And you're never stuck. And I, I love that you said that, and it's important to recognize that you can make a change at any point, so,
[00:34:52] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:34:52] Danielle Wiebe: Amazing. Can you tell us, What you are most proud of. This is how we're gonna wrap up this episode cuz it's been so [00:35:00] amazing having you on. What are you most proud of, of your entrepreneurial journey so far?
[00:35:04] Joy Michelle: Well, thank you so much for having me on. This has been such a life giving conversation. I love this question and it's like it has my wheels turning a little bit and I have kind of a funny answer.
[00:35:14] When I began Photo Boss, the Facebook group and then the community, that following Christmas, one of my members sent me a gift and it's an engraved wine bottle and it says, Thank you for photo boss. From like one of the members in the community.
[00:35:32] And like when I got that, it was such a like physical thing that I felt I was holding something for the first time of something that was very conceptual and digital and I had never met a photo boss at this point, and it was probably a couple hundred people and it was very much like a passion project. And then it felt real in a way that like it hadn't before.
[00:35:53] And that wine bottle just sits it like my office and it's engraved. And I swear to you like I could be [00:36:00] snowed in, there could be a blizzard, and I will not open that wine bottle like that is worth so much to, It's almost like I think I held it up to my husband and I was like, this is like the online business equivalent of like an award. It, you don't get awards, you don't get plaques. At least not that I've gotten. It's like, and in the wedding world, I had a magazine cover, but that wine bottle means more to me than a magazine cover.
[00:36:21] Danielle Wiebe: Oh, that's amazing. I love that so much. Such a tangible reminder of what you're building.
[00:36:26] Joy Michelle: Yeah.
[00:36:26] Danielle Wiebe: So good. Yeah. Where can people find with you, where can people connect with you? Tell us about your podcast, All the things.
[00:36:32] Joy Michelle: Yes. Okay. So the podcast is called To Both and you can listen to that anywhere you listen to podcasts. Um, my website is joymichelle.co. That's co and I'm just Joy Michelle on Everywhere and I'm most active on Instagram.
[00:36:47] Danielle Wiebe: I love that. Thank you so much for being on. I love this conversation. It was so amazing.
[00:36:52] Joy Michelle: Me too. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:36:58] If you love this episode, [00:37:00] make sure you screenshot, post and tag us on Instagram @businessbabesco. Want to know when the next episode goes live? Subscribe on your podcast app and while you're there, leave us a review. Until next time, keep dreaming big, setting goals and taking action.