172 | Creating and Selling a Top-rated Online Course with Melissa Guller of Wit & Wire
You CAN start before you have it all figured out!
LISTEN TO THE EPISODE HERE:
In this episode, Melissa Guller, the founder of Wit & Wire, shares her insights on creating and selling online courses. She discusses the importance of taking action and starting without having everything figured out. Melissa emphasizes that being an entrepreneur doesn't require perfection but rather a willingness to learn and provide value to your audience.
Connect with Melissa:
Website: witandwire.com
YouTube: witandwire.com/youtube
TikTok: tiktok.com/@witandwire
Instagram: instagram.com/witandwire
Complete Online Course Toolkit: You don't need to be a tech guru to be a profitable course creator. This free guide includes the exact equipment, templates, and tools I recommend to create your online course on any budget. Download for free at witandwire.com/coursetoolkit
Key Takeaways:
Embrace the entrepreneurial mindset
Melissa encourages saying "yes" to opportunities and figuring things out along the way, rather than immediately dismissing them due to imposter syndrome or lack of experience.
You don't need to have it all figured out
Starting a business or launching a course doesn't require a perfect plan or extensive resources. As soon as someone pays you, you're in business. Begin with a way to collect payment and provide value.
Overcoming tech and confidence barriers
Many people fear the technical aspects of online business tools and doubt their readiness. Melissa highlights that today's technology is more accessible, and being relatable and genuine is often more important than being perfect or having a professional setup.
Validating demand before extensive marketing
One common mistake is investing heavily in marketing strategies without testing the demand for your course. Validating your idea through a beta group or founder's round helps ensure both the course content and audience interest.
The power of feedback and iteration
Launching a beta group allows for feedback and improvement. Course creators should listen to their audience's needs and make necessary adjustments to create an effective course that resonates with their target audience.
Starting before feeling fully ready is SO important!
Overcoming imposter syndrome, embracing imperfections, and validating demand are crucial steps towards success in the entrepreneurial space.
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transcript
[00:00:00] Danielle: hi Melissa. Welcome to the podcast. I'm so excited to have you here today. Yeah, I'm
[00:00:04] Melissa: so excited to be here.
[00:00:06] Danielle: I would love for you to share a little bit about how did you get into entrepreneurship? Did you always know you wanted to be a business owner?
[00:00:13] Danielle: How did you stumble into this world?
[00:00:15] Melissa: I definitely did not always know, and it's funny because I actually come from a family of entrepreneurs, my dad, both my grandfathers, but as. Incoming college student. I would never have thought to go into business because I thought it sounded boring.
[00:00:28] Melissa: No offense, dad. So I took a different direction with my career, but then I was working full-time in New York and I actually started teaching at General Assembly on. Microsoft Excel of all things, and people would come up to me after class and ask if I offered tutoring or consulting. And even though I didn't at the time, I said, yes, let me get back to you with my rates.
[00:00:49] Melissa: And then I would go furiously Google rates and send over a proposal. So I halfway fell into being a. Business person. But it became a lot more intentional later [00:01:00] on because the more that opened my eyes, the more my full-time career actually went down that path. And I think that's probably what is most unique about my journey is that I worked behind the scenes for Roommate Satie for Teachable for a lot of years before I set out on my own and started Witten Wire.
[00:01:15] Melissa: So I have this unique advantage of. Seeing what an eight figure course creator does, what the software company did, and I had the chance to talk with so many teachable creators and see the data behind what successful business owners were doing. So I took all of that knowledge plus my teaching background to set out on my own.
[00:01:33] Melissa: And now I work with online business owners to help them create and sell their own profitable courses. So it's been a unique path of just saying yes to opportunity that's led me to where I am today.
[00:01:43] Danielle: That's so cool. Okay. One thing that I wanted to pull out from what you said, which I think is so interesting, is that when people asked you, Hey, do you do tutoring or like consulting on the side, you're like, yeah, let me get back to you. It's just like, figure it out. Right? And I think that's such a cool very entrepreneurial thing [00:02:00] to do. So obviously, as it runs in the family, that makes sense. But I think a lot of people, they have this. , imposter syndrome where maybe they don't see themselves as an entrepreneur or maybe they've never done what someone is asking them for, and so they just immediately say no.
[00:02:16] Danielle: Whereas it sounds like you are a yes person and then figure it out later, is, would you say that that's ki that's kind of your personality?
[00:02:23] Melissa: A little bit, but I'm certainly a planner. Like I've been a project manager, I've been a department head, so there's definitely amount of an amount of future thinking that goes into it.
[00:02:31] Melissa: But I am an opportunist and I think by being open-minded to what's come my way, that's how I've been able to move forward. Both as a business owner and in my full-time career. And I would say too, I hope that hearing a little bit of that story also inspires people to realize you don't have to have it all figured out to get started.
[00:02:48] Melissa: As soon as one person pays you, you're in business. So you don't need like a huge business plan. You don't need a giant website, you don't need any of that. You just need a way to collect payment and say yes. So it's not, I think, [00:03:00] required that you need to have it all
[00:03:01] Danielle: figured out to get started. Such a good point.
[00:03:04] Danielle: And I really love that because I think especially today where there's. All this information out there, it almost yes it's so helpful that we have so much at our fingertips. But then I think too, sometimes it can slow people down if they don't maybe feel confident because they think that everyone else knows so much more than them, and so they're like, oh, I'm not ready, or, I don't know as much as this person, so that means that I, shouldn't take on this project, whatever that might be.
[00:03:34] Danielle: I would love for you to speak to that a little bit. When it comes to, you help business owners create online courses, you do a lot and even on your YouTube, you're teaching a lot when it comes to different programs and tools and things like that. So what do you find in the entrepreneurial space?
[00:03:52] Danielle: What holds people back do you think the most when it comes to launching either their first online course or product, or [00:04:00] even just starting their business?
[00:04:03] Melissa: I think it's usually either a belief that they can't do the tech or a belief that they're not ready. So on the tech side, I think it feels very daunting if you've never used any of the online business tools before, which is why so much of my YouTube channel and kind of the public content I share at Witten Wire just focuses on.
[00:04:23] Melissa: Demystifying a lot of the tech, but also simplifying it. And today, especially new tools come out left and right. There's always something new on the market. And I think my best general advice about tools is that there's not such a thing as a best tool for everybody. There are just different tools that suit.
[00:04:40] Melissa: Different business owners because we all have different personalities, we all have different goals. And another small tip I would say is that you don't have to do everything at once. You can add to your business both from a strategic and a tech perspective, but I think that the tech holds people back.
[00:04:54] Melissa: But if you can upload a post to Instagram, you can be a course creator. Much of course creation is drag [00:05:00] dropping, it's putting things together. It is not coding. We're very fortunate to live in a time where tech is much more accessible than it's ever been, I hope that people hear that they don't need to be super tech savvy to be a course creator.
[00:05:13] Melissa: And then I think on the other side, it's the belief that their audience isn't big enough or that they can't be on camera, or that their setup isn't professional enough or all of these different things. But the truth is that people out there really need the expertise that we all already have to offer, and they do not need you to be a guru.
[00:05:29] Melissa: In fact, sometimes it's more relatable. If you are closer to where they are in their journey, they can see themselves in you more than they can see somebody who's 12 steps ahead. They also don't need you to have a perfect camera set up or a lighting set up. Like my background was teaching in person and I would just show up and teach in a classroom.
[00:05:46] Melissa: I said ums all the time. I would stumble. I would skip over slides and it didn't matter because people are paying for the knowledge that you have and the skills that can make a change in their life. So you don't need all the bells and whistles. And that's not why we people will [00:06:00] turn to you. So I think people can get started sooner than they think.
[00:06:03] Melissa: People don't expect you to be as perfect as you're putting pressure on yourself to be, and you certainly don't have it, need to have it all figured out to get started.
[00:06:10] Danielle: That's so good. And I think too, We wanna learn from other humans that are not perfect. If you're too perfectly polished and everything, is absolutely stunning and beautiful.
[00:06:24] Danielle: Yes, that's attractive in a way, but especially if you're teaching someone to do something, they come to you for the knowledge. Like I think about some of the content that's out there or things that I've learned from. It's usually I like this person, I like their personality. I can relate somewhat to them and I believe that they know what they're talking about and that they can teach me something. So I love what you said there because
[00:06:47] Danielle: that has held me back, as far as launching my podcast, that was something that held me back because it was like the first episode. I'm like the first episode has to be so perfect, or else no one's ever gonna listen again. And it's so funny cuz [00:07:00] it's that's not really true.
[00:07:01] Danielle: You just gotta start. And if you never get started, then you're, you can't have your 50th or a hundredth or 200th episode where it's a lot better than your first.
[00:07:10] Melissa: There's this concept too from Ira Glass. He calls it The Gap, and it references the fact that when you get started and you're creating something new, like in your case, new to podcasting, or for course creators, you're brand new, you've never done it before.
[00:07:23] Melissa: There's a gap between what you know good looks like or sounds like. Because we listen to great podcasts, we've seen courses, perhaps we've watched videos, like we know what good looks like, but there's a gap between what we know is good. And our skillset or our capacity to create that. So then there's this tension, this frustration, we feel that our first podcast episode isn't good enough because it doesn't match someone's 100th episode.
[00:07:46] Melissa: And so we try to learn our way into being better, but the truth is, the only way you can get better as a business owner is to do. And so the same is true with course creation, and I think that holds a lot of people back. But the other piece of it is [00:08:00] that your course, Isn't permanent. I think that's another fear people have is I'm putting myself out on video and then it's gonna be this permanent asset, but that's not true.
[00:08:08] Melissa: The first version is just that it's your kind of beta go around. I usually refer to your first students as founders, and they know it's new. They're gonna give you feedback. And the best way to become a great course creator who has an effective course that gets great testimonials and that continues to sell, is to listen to what people need and then to give it to them so you don't have to be psychic.
[00:08:26] Melissa: Nor do you have to be perfect, but you do have to decide to start and then take action to move forward. So
[00:08:32] Danielle: good. A question that I have based on what you just said is, what are some of the biggest mistakes that you see people make when it comes to creating their course? I think a lot of people, want, the, recurring income or passive income, whatever that looks like, online income. But they don't really know how to get started. So I think my first question would be, what would be the thing that you would recommend they do before they launch an [00:09:00] online course? And then what are some mistakes that you see people making ?
[00:09:04] Melissa: I would say we can maybe jump to the mistakes first. Because the biggest mistake I see is, That people jump ahead and they try to throw every marketing strategy at their new course before it's been tested. So to get more specific, when we look out into the world at business owners, we admire, we see a lot of them doing things like running big live launches, big webinars, big challenges, big paid ad campaigns, big affiliate promos.
[00:09:28] Melissa: The problem is not that those strategies. Don't work. Those are all great strategies. The problem is if you try to throw all of those strategies at your first course launch for a new course, I should say, and you haven't yet validated demand that the course will sell, if the campaign ends and if your sales don't look the way that you expected, you are gonna have an impossible time figuring out if it was the marketing that didn't work.
[00:09:50] Melissa: Or if it was the offer itself. And there's this concept from the world of direct response copywriting called the 40 40 20 rule, which says that when somebody makes a buying decision, 40% of their decision is, are they in the right [00:10:00] audience? 40% is did they want the offer? And only 20%. Is the creative, the copy, the design, all of that.
[00:10:09] Melissa: And I think that should be taken as a bit of a relief because ultimately it means you don't need to be a master marketer to sell. You just need to find something that an audience deeply and actually wants. Mm-hmm. And then put it out there. So I think that's a huge mistake to spend so much of your time developing all of these huge marketing assets before you've sold it once to prove that you do have a profitable idea.
[00:10:30] Danielle: That's so good. I actually have a very tangible example of this because it was right before I, I just recently had my second baby. And before that I randomly, and I say randomly because. It truly was like outta the blue, launched a brand new program, and the reason for it was because I was being asked the same questions over and over again, and I purposefully didn't actually make it really public because I wanted to have [00:11:00] a really small group and I wanted to be able to test it to see if it's something that I would ever wanna launch again.
[00:11:06] Danielle: And so I brought a. Super small group of people through this program, and now I'm thinking, okay, do I wanna launch this again? What was the feedback? How could I maybe change it or update it and then maybe do a public live launch and bring in some of those, marketing aspects to it.
[00:11:23] Danielle: In sharing that I want to ask you do you think that it is important to have. A proven concept for your first launch and maybe even do more of a beta program first and then launch it into something evergreen, or do you think you can launch like straight in and have it as an evergreen product?
[00:11:44] Melissa: Great question. I think it's best to start with a beta group founders around, whatever you wanna call it. And I would say that even to creators I've worked with who have a bigger audience. Because I think when you have a bigger audience, you definitely have validated demand that people are interested in the topic you're [00:12:00] sharing.
[00:12:00] Melissa: And I. Like you said, people were asking you the same questions again and again. That is such a good indicator for any business owner tuning in, if you're starting to get the same questions again and again, or if you work with one-on-one clients and you notice that you're developing a signature process without even thinking about it.
[00:12:16] Melissa: You do the same set of steps each time, like you are in the market for a future course. Those are good little green flags to collect. But I think the benefit of doing a beta group, or a founder's round, whatever you wanna call it, is that not only can you put the offer out there with pretty little marketing to really test the concept, but the other half of the equation, which I think is so important, is making sure that your curriculum works.
[00:12:39] Melissa: And when you have this founder's group, They know that they're the first. They know that they're gonna be able not only to provide feedback, but most likely they're gonna get support from you in a way that you won't do long-term. Yeah. And I think that the dream of earning income in a way that feels passive, where you're earning money regularly, month over month, is very real.
[00:12:58] Melissa: But I think the mistake is trying [00:13:00] to jump ahead. To having a course that's fully passive with marketing strategies that are fully passive, rather than testing them at different stages. So as a business philosophy, I have a concept I call the course lifecycle method because what I've seen is that successful courses do use different teaching and marketing strategies at each stage of growth in order to scale.
[00:13:19] Melissa: And I'm talking here about more of a signature course, something that's two 50 to 500 US dollars, or up into the four figures. And if you. Are a little more personally involved. The first round, you're working a little more closely with students, collecting that feedback, and then the next time you're incorporating that feedback and then by the end of that round you've got the fully built course, and then you can shift your focus really over to the marketing and the scaling piece of it.
[00:13:43] Melissa: Those three stages, validate, elevate, and automate. That's what I call them. I think that really gives you not only the insights to make a course that works, but also you get paid sooner and more consistently over time.
[00:13:54] Danielle: I'm glad that you said that because I've talked about this on the podcast before about passive [00:14:00] income cuz I'm really passionate about I think passive income is amazing and recurring income but I think that because we live in a world where those.
[00:14:07] Danielle: Concepts are thrown around a lot. A lot of people get confused and they think, oh okay, I'm just gonna put something out there. I'm gonna have it be evergreen right away and I'm just gonna be earning all of this passive income. Whereas that's not how it works. No. Like you said, there's a process to it and I love that you have those three stages because I think that's a really tangible example of, a lot of the people that maybe We look at to say, oh, this person launched this program and they made this amount and it's all on evergreen.
[00:14:38] Danielle: They probably have gone through those stages. You just haven't seen it on the backend. And so plus, they've been doing it for potentially 10 years, whereas, if you're in your first year expecting to make, $10,000 evergreen every single month, when your product.
[00:14:55] Danielle: Is brand new is a little bit unrealistic, so [00:15:00] I agree. Do you find that people have these expectations of what they think maybe their launches are gonna be like, and then they get discouraged? Do you find that happens with people in this space? And what would you recommend for people who are just getting started and how do you have those big, lofty goals but then still stay?
[00:15:19] Danielle: Realistic and say, okay, this might take some time to really
[00:15:23] Melissa: get going. I definitely see it, and I think in particular working at Teachable, you just start to notice what sets apart the successful creators from perhaps the ones that build a course, but then never see any sales. And I think we've hopefully helped with some of the mindset around, it's okay if you start small.
[00:15:40] Melissa: Think of it this way, if you sell a course for. $500 and you only enroll three students, you're getting paid $1,500 to develop your course. To me, that's potentially a great starting point because then from there, if you can get paid double or triple that the second round and then just continue to grow over time, you can [00:16:00] see how it's not perhaps that overnight, like passive income sip drinks in Bali vision that I think were sold online.
[00:16:08] Melissa: Yeah. But it is profitable and it is scalable and it is sustainable. But I think the other thing that I've noticed is that a lot of creators spend a lot of time building a
[00:16:19] Danielle: whole course upfront. They
[00:16:20] Melissa: spend months putting into it. They perfect these videos. They record and rerecord. Perhaps they're stuck in their own like perfectionist beliefs of what this course has to be.
[00:16:29] Melissa: And then when they put it out and it doesn't sell, that's when it's. Extra disappointing because you've already put so much hard work into it, and that's why I think it's too risky to develop the whole course first. I'm a firm believer in having a full plan. Mm-hmm. Full, you know, weekly plan, what's happening, what are the lessons?
[00:16:45] Melissa: Definitely. But when I work with new course creators, usually at maximum, I have them prep only the first two weeks in full, either in pre-recorded videos or potentially to teach live. And then you would be creating content in batches over time [00:17:00] because just like service providers, you get paid upfront and then you deliver the service.
[00:17:04] Melissa: And I think it should be the same mentality when you sell. A new course. So I would say hopefully, if anything, like a big takeaway could be that you don't have to start huge in order to have a successful foundation, to have a course that does have long-term profit potential.
[00:17:18] Danielle: So good. Yeah, and that's ex, that's actually exactly what I did with my new program is that I had it all in my head so I, put, got out a Google doc and I brain dumped all of the things that I wanted to include in it.
[00:17:30] Danielle: And so I had that structure of okay, week one we're gonna do this week two, week three, week four, week five, week six. But I did not have any of the slides done. I didn't have any of the in-depth content and I basically created it week by week. And the cool thing was that, people are saying, oh, are we gonna go over this in future weeks?
[00:17:49] Danielle: I'm like, great. Yeah, I'll totally add that to week three, cuz we're already gonna be talking about this aspect. So I'll just add that in based on your questions and based on your feedback. But I [00:18:00] would've never known to add those things in if I wasn't asked those questions as I was delivering the content.
[00:18:06] Danielle: So it's. It's so true that, like you said, if you're going through all the work to develop your content, Upfront. And then you sell. You sell it. And even if you do have students join, but then there's all this content that's missing, then you're gonna have to add it or rerecord it anyways, which is not
[00:18:24] Melissa: ideal.
[00:18:25] Melissa: No, and this is exactly the theme of earlier where I. Yeah, we don't necessarily know what feedback is coming, but when you have the flexibility, it's not procrastinating to not create the course first. Yeah. Like earlier the theme was we want courses that are effective, courses that actually help students reach their outcome because ultimately that's what's gonna sell long-term.
[00:18:45] Melissa: If your course doesn't work, if you can't get testimonials long term. I had a copywriter friend and he would call it putting lipstick on a pig. Like you can only do that for so long. Okay. You can only parade around something that doesn't work. Until it breaks. But on the other hand, [00:19:00] if you have a great course and it works and students are successful and are testimonials, not only is that a literal marketing tool on the page, but they're gonna tell people that's gonna be a huge sign.
[00:19:09] Melissa: So the fact that you're a perfect example, you're listening to what they're telling you, you're able to incorporate it, the flexibility. Of teaching week to week leaves you open to actually hear what your students need and then to give them what they need. And that's so refreshing. I think today, like people almost don't expect it, that they're going to be able to ask the instructor questions or to have their questions directly answered, and a little goes such a long way.
[00:19:34] Melissa: So I think not only does it, again, create better curriculum, but it also really builds great relationships. Totally.
[00:19:40] Danielle: So what are some things that you're seeing in the online world? What are some shifts or changes that you've seen? Because courses have now been around for several years now, , what would you predict is the future of online courses and what do you feel like is working and then what's also [00:20:00] not working?
[00:20:01] Melissa: I think the craziest part of the last few years is the fact that people know what I do for work. Now, that was just not true Before the pandemic, I had the hardest time. I would joke that I was like the Chandler of my friend group if that reference lands. For some listeners, yes, like people just couldn't comprehend what I was doing, cuz I was working for Ramit at this fully remote company and then I was working for Teachable and.
[00:20:22] Melissa: I think that the shift towards people feeling comfortable online with the pandemic and us being used to doing more online has really affected the online course industry. And I think one specific trend is that there, there's more of a blur between what we used to think of as a course versus a community.
[00:20:41] Melissa: Before the pandemic and when I worked for Ramit. We were selling courses that were just videos, resources. No interaction with instructor. No interaction with peers. And you can absolutely still sell a course that looks like that, right? But I think today, and I think at a certain price point your audience might want [00:21:00] either some time with you could be in the form of something like group coaching.
[00:21:03] Melissa: It could be in the form of feedback on their work. It could be in the form of a peer community. But I don't think that those are all necessarily the right fit for all audiences. If you're working with couples who are perhaps struggling in a marriage, a community might not make sense because that's not a topic maybe that they wanna talk about with other people.
[00:21:22] Melissa: On the other hand, a community of like new first time parents definitely might wanna be in a community with other parents to share tips and share what's been working. So I don't think that the trend is that every course needs interaction, but I do think. There is this blurred line that has made the world of online course creation maybe more open to other types of features, whether it's interacting with the instructor or the community, or potentially both.
[00:21:46] Danielle: I really like that and I like that you shared that. It really depends on, The course itself because, you could say one size fits all. Oh, every single person needs to have a [00:22:00] community with your course. Or you could say the opposite, but I totally agree with you. I think it really depends on what you're teaching, what your business is, and then what your ideal clients really want out of it and what's also gonna get them the best results.
[00:22:14] Danielle: Like you shared previously What do you recommend people do? What's like that first step that they should do if they're just feeling kind of overwhelmed with, with it all?
[00:22:23] Melissa: I'm gonna give two, and I'm sure you won't be surprised by either one. It's like when people talk about how do you become like healthier and then people give obvious suggestions. Yeah. I feel like I'm gonna do that here, but it's perfect worth saying. If you are thinking about creating and selling your own online courses, I would recommend either starting an email list or creating a freebie.
[00:22:44] Melissa: That is directly tied to the outcome of your course. It should be a super obvious link, like if you wanted to help people with something related to their hip pain and you were a yoga practitioner, it could be about [00:23:00] like the five best poses to do at your desk to relieve hip pain. It should be that closely tied, because where I see people go wrong with email list welding is that they have a general freebie that is interesting.
[00:23:11] Melissa: But it wouldn't attract the right buyer for the future course. So think about what the outcome of your course is that you wanna sell. For many of you, that could be related to a service that you're already doing. It might already be aligned with your business because a great course, I think Foundation I.
[00:23:26] Melissa: Is having a service that you already offer and then packaging it as a course so you can offer the DIY or the done for you approach. So have a freebie, build an email list. You don't need a huge list. You do not need thousands of people on this list. I usually say two 50 to 500 subscribers is about the minimum, but if you have a really engaged following on any platform, Or if you're comfortable just putting things out there to your network.
[00:23:49] Melissa: These are not prerequisites. This is just me trying to give people a sense. And I think maybe the thing I would say is if you're brand new to business and you've never worked with anybody one-on-one and you haven't started building any type of [00:24:00] audience, I think I would recommend starting with a service, because that's easier to get up and running just like I did when I said yes to tutoring, and yes to consulting.
[00:24:07] Melissa: Get paid a little bit, even by a handful of people to figure out where there is demand. But in the meantime, Build an email list, have that related freebie. You could even put on your website right now, wait list, even in the main nav or the footer of your site. And then just capture emails.
[00:24:22] Melissa: And you could say, I'm coming out with this course where I help X person do Y, and have people opt in to be the first to hear. Because that way you're at least capturing interest for people who might find you today, even if you aren't ready to sell the course for three to six months. So I would say that's a literal strategy.
[00:24:37] Melissa: And then, The other part of it we've talked about like selling services a little bit. That's one way to do research and get paid, but the other thing anybody could do even today is just put an offer out to your audience. For example, an Instagram story and say, Hey, I'm doing research to create a course where I help X type of person reach this outcome.
[00:24:55] Melissa: I'd love to talk with a couple of you and then just get. On an actual like phone [00:25:00] call or zoom call, because I say this a lot, but it's worth repeating. The best way I think to be in business is to ask people what they want and then to give it to them. And so then the best thing you can do is do a little research.
[00:25:11] Melissa: You can do external research, see what other businesses are up to. That's a good green flag. But hearing in people's words what they're struggling with and how you might help them resolve it, that's a great foundation too. So literal way, build an email list, but metaphorical slash spiritual slash getting started by, do a little research, talk to some humans.
[00:25:27] Danielle: Oh, so good. I feel like everything you're saying, I'm like yes. Because these are all things that I encourage our community to do. Actually get to know the people that you are trying to serve, because you could put something random out there, but if it's not actually gonna solve their problems or it's not something they want, or if you, even if it's something technically they need, but they don't know, they.
[00:25:48] Danielle: Need it. Mm-hmm. It's not gonna sell. Right. So, No. Oh, those are such great tips. Okay. So I have one last question for you, and then I want you to share with people how they can find you and how they can connect with you. So, [00:26:00] What are you the most proud of, of your entrepreneurial
[00:26:03] Melissa: journey so far? I think just putting in notice at Teachable and I.
[00:26:09] Melissa: Was in a dream job. I loved working for Teachable. I really did, and I hit this crossroad. It was before the pandemic where I had already seen what was possible. Working for Ramit really opened my eyes. Just the fact that you could have an online business like this. But I was very fortunate to have a job that I liked, which in some ways keeps you comfortable.
[00:26:28] Melissa: So the fact that I then decided to start this business and then tell my, I was like in senior director at Teachable. In New York City, like a very comfortable salary, and I was like, you know what? I'm gonna leave this super comfortable salary during a pandemic to go out on my own. I think that was a huge, proud moment, but honestly, every month I do a little like check-in.
[00:26:48] Melissa: I do a monthly review as a business owner, and even on months where I don't feel like I did exactly what I had hoped to do, I still feel a lot of gratitude for the fact that I am. Doing it like I'm living in [00:27:00] my favorite city. I am able to have a lifestyle that affords me the freedom to spend time with my family, even people who aren't in the city where I live.
[00:27:08] Melissa: And so I just constantly feel gratitude that not only did I say I was gonna go out and do this, but
[00:27:13] Danielle: I actually followed through. That's so inspiring. I love that so much. And where can people find you? Where can they connect with you? Tell us
[00:27:22] Melissa: all the places. So you can find me anywhere online at Wit and Wire.
[00:27:26] Melissa: In particular, our YouTube channel offers a lot of great free strategies and tutorials. So we're on YouTube at Wit and Wire. And if you are interested in all of these software, I recommend that is one of the biggest questions I'm always asked. So if you wanna see a side by side comparison, of course, platforms, and just all the things that go into a course business, you can download our free toolkit@witandwire.com slash course
[00:27:47] Danielle: toolkit.
[00:27:48] Danielle: So good. And also very exciting is Melissa is going to be a part of our online challenge happening at the end of the month. So definitely come join us to hear more from Melissa. So Melissa, thank you so much for joining us. [00:28:00] I really appreciate your time and I appreciate you joining us for today's episode.
[00:28:04] Danielle: And definitely go check out all the resources that Melissa has if you are looking to launch your online course or product. So thanks for. Thanks for coming. Thanks for having me.