EPISODE 66 - Scaling an Online Business, The Power of Referral Partners and Building a Strong Affiliate Network with Business Lawyer Jaime Bell of The Contracts Market
Are you ready to scale your business by being fully present in your passions and committed to the community you already have?
LISTEN TO THE EPISODE HERE:
In Today's Episode we have another amazing Guest, Jaime Bell. In this conversation, we dive into her journey to become an Online Business Owner, and Launching a Legal Contract Template Business! Jaime gets real about what it really takes to scale a digital product shop. We dive into the power of having good referral partners for your business and how Jaime has been able to build a strong affiliate network who loves to share about her products.
Get to know Jaime Bell - Jaime is the founder of the Contracts Market where she provides legal contract templates for Canadian entrepreneurs. (Soon to Launch in the U.S.) In addition to Contracts Market, Jaime runs her own law firm, Wild Coast Law, where she provides legal services to businesses in British Columbia
Jaime’s Journey to Wild Coast Law
Jaime shares how she started on the law track and never stopped to ask herself if it was what she actually wanted to do with her life. She felt stuck on the hamster wheel throughout high school, university and law school, knowing that she didn’t want to be a lawyer forever. After practicing law for several years, she decided to take a step back professionally & personally and take a trip, which hit a reset button on the course of her life - a life that she could be passionate about living every day.
She did a “test run” - leaving Toronto and moving out West and spent time asking herself what she actually wanted in her day-to-day life. In this time, Jaime found she didn’t hate practicing law, but actually felt disconnected from her clients, which set her in the direction of her ideal life! The journey to finding her ideal life as an entrepreneur didn’t happen overnight - it took time and work. Good things take time and effort.
Mindset
Jaime shares her mindset as she built out her ideal life and client:
“I don’t want to be stuck like I felt in the past” and committed to bare bones explorations of ideas as she worked through what it might look like. You are allowed to try new things and build from the ground up!
Don’t get caught up in how others may perceive you! Pursue what works for you and what makes you feel successful.
Find people you want to work with! Otherwise known as finding your ideal client, it’s important to build your work around people you can serve passionately.
Jaime focused on two things as she developed her business:
She needed to scale a business where time doesn’t equal money
She wanted to create something fun that could serve the community she wanted to be a part of
Scaling & Lessons Learned
Jaime holds that there is no such thing as “passive income” - you can make money while you sleep, however, that takes consistent upkeep! You can scale, if you understand your bread and butter.
Hire people who can thrive in their zone of genius so you can focus on what you are good at. Jaime started by hiring a social media manager and virtual assistant.
Focus on the things that make you money. Start small with what your clients want and then sort out your processes - this kind of growth is more sustainable. This also provides a way to build trust with clients, as you deliver according to their pain points.
Affiliate Marketing Tips
If you’re interested in launching an affiliate program, you have to make it worthwhile because you are taking up valuable space on whatever platform you use.
Make it easy for affiliates to sell your product.
Find what incentivizes your affiliates and their clients/community. Make sure you are creating affiliations that create value all the way down the chain.
Have good referral partners, be specific when selecting your affiliates. Do not try to be everything to everyone, but know your audience.
Be authentic and build trust! Jaime doesn’t often ask for a sale or do cold pitches for affiliations or partnerships, but many of her connections come from organic relationships or valuable exchanges. If you try the cold pitch, make sure you can back it up with the specific value you offer.
Connect with Jaime:
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One on One Business Coaching and Strategy Consulting with Danielle Wiebe
TRANSCRIPT
Danielle: [00:00:00] Welcome back to the podcast. Thank you so much for being here. I'm super excited for today's episode. We have another amazing guest Jamie bell. Who's joining me today. Jamie is the founder of the contracts market, where she provides legal contract templates currently in Canada and soon to be the U S as well, which is really exciting. And she also runs her own law firm, wild coast law, which she provides legal services to businesses in British Columbia. She is just so amazing. I met Jamie about four years ago, which you'll hear about in the podcast, but I was so grateful to have met her. I was actually looking for a lawyer that we could partner with and collaborate with for our community.
And I was having the hardest time connecting with a, either a law firm or someone who was open to, you know, connecting with small businesses. Everyone kind of didn't seem interested in actually working with small businesses. And so it was so refreshing [00:01:00] to meet Jamie. Someone who has such a passion for small business owners and who really, you know, wanted to serve this community. And so another fun fact is that Jamie actually took action takers club. When she first launched the contracts market back in 2020, it was so cool to have her go through the action tickers club program and just to see where she's at now. So inspiring, and I think you're really gonna love the conversation. So make sure you have a notebook handy or the notes on your phone. So you can jot down some of the aha moments that Jamie shares within this episode. It's really inspiring. We talk about her journey of how she got to where she is today. All of the different. Pivots that she's done and different things that she's tried and pursued in her search for what she truly wants to do.
So if you guys earn a season of transition or doing something different, I think you're going to be really inspired by this conversation. We also dive into the importance of having referral [00:02:00] partners for your business. And I asked her all about her affiliate program, which she runs for the contracts market. It is so amazing and inspiring how she is able to reach so many people with her contracts through her affiliate. So we're going to talk all about that, how she structures it, what value she gives, all of that. So you guys are going to really get so much value out of this, especially if you have an online business of any kind, this is going to really, really be valuable for you. As far as building the right type of connections and how you can scale that using affiliate marketing.
So I can't wait for you to tune into our conversation. I think you're going to get so much value out of it, but before we do, I wanted to remind you that the bonuses for action-takers club, our signature program and community are expiring today. So if you want to get access to our signature course and community to teach you how to build a profitable business without working around the clock now is a incredible time to jump in you guys, because we [00:03:00] have two bonuses. One is our profitable workflow system, which is step-by-step train. On how you can actually create a profitable workflow for yourself so that every morning when you wake up, you know exactly what tasks that you need to work on for your business, you can copy and paste our systems and workflows and make them your own. And then also the automation toolbox. So all the tools that you need to scale a profitable online business, and you can use these simple automation tools, it'll save you hours per week, trust me, you can customize them and just use them for your own business. And these are the ones that we currently use. And also some of our students use as well.
And yeah, you guys, these bonuses are available until the end of the day. They run out at midnight pST tonight. So join action-takers before then to grab these bonuses. We can't wait to see you in there. I cannot wait to meet you and cheer you on and see you on some of our live calls. If you didn't know, we do weekly [00:04:00] work sessions, monthly networking events and monthly group coaching. It is a blast you guys. Plus we have all the incredible content in the action takers club program. There's no better time than right now to jump in the group and come meet us and let us. Help you to scale your business. So go to business babes collective.com/ action-takers club and join us there. If you're still a little bit unsure, you can watch the masterclass that is linked in there as well. So again, go to business babes collected.com/ action-takers club. You'll see all of the information there, all the modules broken down, everything that you need to know. And if you still have questions, you can email me at Danielle at business babes collective.com.
All right, we'll see you inside. And let's go ahead and jump into the episode. Welcome to the business feeds collected podcast. I'm your host, Danielle Wiebe in this podcast. You'll learn tangible [00:05:00] business tips and strategies on how to grow successfully and sustainably. We'll also interview seasoned entrepreneurs so you can listen in on their stories and see behind the scenes of what it took to grow and scale their businesses. Let's dive in. As we discussed the wild, exciting, crazy challenging roller coaster ride of entrepreneurship.
Hello, Jamie, I'm so excited to have you on the podcast today. Welcome to the business babes collective pod.
Jaime: Thank you Danielle. I'm really stoked to be here too. Well, I
Danielle: am excited for everyone else to get to know you as well, because I have known you over the past few years, it's been at least three or four years because we, I think we originally met at one of the events that we did in Yaletown like maybe four years ago.
Jaime: I think so, because I had just moved to Vancouver and you and the business babes were like my first real community. I'd [00:06:00] say, when I moved here,
Danielle: I love it. I love it. So fun. So since then, we've obviously stayed in touch. We've collaborated on a few different things. And so I want you to just share a little bit more about who you are, what you do for the listeners who don't know who you are.
Jaime: Sure. Yeah. And my name is Jamie bell and I'm a business lawyer, primarily who has a law firm. It's called wild coast law or BC entrepreneurs. And I also have an e-commerce shop called the contracts market where I sell contract templates for entrepreneurs.
Danielle: I love that. So good. And can you tell us a little bit more about like what sparked the idea for your business? I mean, obviously I know your journey and kind of how you got to where you are now, but for our listeners, like, was this always something that you wanted to do? Was it always something that was kind of in your mind as something that you wanted to create or did you just sort of fall into it? Figure it out along the way.
Jaime: I feel like it was a bit of all of that. It goes back [00:07:00] to even in law school, I got to law school, not knowing what the heck I was getting myself into. I put a lot of work in the undergrad. I feel like I, it came pretty easily and then I got to law school and it was a huge wake up call to me. Like I did not know what I was doing. I did not know what a lawyer really did in their day to day. I don't think I would've signed up for it if I had actually known, but, and maybe if there's other people listening to this, they can relate a little bit, but you get on this hamster wheel where you feel like you have to keep going, going. And it's like the next thing.
So for me, it was like good grades. In high school to get into undergrad and then good grades and undergrad to get into law school. And then the first job in law school passing the LSAT at the bar exam. Like you just keep going on this wheel. And I don't think I ever really stopped to take a breath to figure out like, okay, is this actually the path that I want? Or is it just the path that I'm set on right now? So [00:08:00] when I got to law school and I met some great people in law school for sure, but I definitely felt like a fish out of water. And the mindset I kind of had through law school was like, just get through this because everyone keeps telling me you can do anything with a law degree.
And then the other one is. I probably won't be a lawyer forever anyway, which I'm not sure if that's the best mindset to go through. Three schools have like three years of like very intense schooling with, it's interesting that that's like, what got you through? I was like, just get through this. And I also think it's like really hard to get kicked out of law school. Not that I was doing terribly by any stretch of the imagination, but. I wanted to do well to get a good job, because that's what everyone else wanted. And you kind of get caught up and like get a good job and all of this kind of thing. So yeah, I had in the back of my head, like, it's not going to be what I'm going to do anyway, forever. And so I did end up practicing kind of traditionally for seven years in different law [00:09:00] firms, some were a good fit. Some were not a good fit. I went in-house for less than a year that did not work out well for me. And then it kind of all happened at a point where I was thinking my head, okay, just save up some money to take a year off and figure out like, what the heck you want to do in your life.
And that really coincided with like the growth of podcasts. And I just became obsessed with listening to business podcasts, and I wanted to somehow inject myself into that community of people like I, so I was so disassociated from my clients I was actually serving in my law practice. And at that time I really got into running, which was like an outlet for everything. And then I broke up with my like very typical financing kind of boyfriend partner at the time. I was like, I'm, I'm like leaving this life behind somehow and ended up going on like [00:10:00] a kayaking trip with my mom. This all will make sense at some point I promise. So I ended up going on a kayaking,
Danielle: I'm loving this story I'm loving every moment of it. So keep going.
Jaime: I ended up going on a kayak trip with my mom. And then another mother daughter duo to British Columbia. And I was like fresh off of breakup looking for my next, what am I going to do with my life? And I met my then, then kayak guide now partner. And he was like, really inspired me to like, live a life that you love every day. And it was kind of shocking to him that somewhat but not unusual, but a lot of his clients that were going on these trips with him were like very unhappy in their day-to-day life and was doing trips to kind of escape for that one week of the year. And this was kind of shocking to him that people would live their life kind of in a backwards way like that.
And so that started sparking my okay, [00:11:00] someone I've met and into his living this life of he's following his passion and has created a life that really works for him that way. That was my initial, like, huh, this, this can happen. And then, you know, being fueled by all these entrepreneurs who are out there, like living their best life and like still it's hard work, like I think a lot of entrepreneurship was glamorized or is still glamorized, but I was like, okay, I can figure this out. So we ended up getting together over the course of a few months and I did a test run. So I rented my apartment in Toronto to another law student and took off to BC for the summer. I wasn't working at that point. I had saved up some money and I just took the time off to give myself some space to figure out what life feels like, not being controlled by a big law firm where you're working, you know, eight to eight every day [00:12:00] and all those expectations. And I kind of just took the pressure valve off for a little bit and I was in a very privileged position to be able to do that. And so I just house sat my way across BC and Alberta looking after people's dogs and gave myself the mornings to like journal and figure out what I wanted to do. And I was like, oh, I really like health and nutrition. Maybe I'll be a nutritionist and started looking at like, what did that feel like?
And then maybe I'll be a coach for lawyers to like, get them out of the grind because I'm starting to see the light of what it feels like to not be in that grind and feel like I have other options. So I took a coaching program and then started coaching people and was like, this is not for me right now. And then I just started thinking like, how could I use my current skills in a way that feels more in tune with how I want my life to be. And I think that was the first time where I sat down and was like, well, what do I want my life my day to [00:13:00] day look like? And I actually do like sitting down at my computer and doing work. It was just more of the clients that I was serving. I felt really disconnected with. So I just kind of reframed who I wanted my client to be and how I could serve them in the best way I knew how to do, which was good lawyering. And so I kind of started thinking about a game plan for that. And I was like, well, I've been working in these bigger law firms and then working for a huge property company.
How can I get some experience working with smaller business owners and take all that like bigger business knowledge that I have and apply it to small business owners. So I started looking for small law jobs to kind of like build my skillset with the idea that eventually I'm going to go out and do my own thing. So I that's, when I moved to Vancouver, I ended up taking the job in the law firm, which I was working on I think when we met and started kind of laying the foundation for next steps at that point. So. Yeah. It was a bit of [00:14:00] like..
Danielle: Yeah, what I love about that journey is just that, like, I think a lot of people look at entrepreneurs or they look at people maybe in your position of this is so cool, you know, what you've been able to create and this, this business, this online business that you have and all of these pieces of it. And they just think like, wow, they must've had just this idea that they just ran with either right out of school or like, just that it was just this thing that happened overnight. And I, we know that it doesn't happen overnight, but then we, but then social media often just like skews it- it's not that necessarily people are lying- I know some people probably do- but it it's almost like, excuse it in a way where we just see the fast-tracked version of what people's businesses look like right now.
And so I love that you shared that and that behind the scenes. Cause it was like you tested out a lot of things that weren't for you and you, [00:15:00] you know, you tried and you pivoted and you, you figured out like, okay. And there was a lot of, probably during that time and I don't know, actually, let me ask you that- what was your mindset at that time when you were trying these things and then realizing, oh, this isn't really, what I want to do. Was that disappointing to you, or was it just sort of this mindset of I'm eventually going to figure out what I want and I'm going to, I'm going to get there. What was your, where was your mind at that point?
Jaime: There's definitely a point where I left toronto and was like the sky's the limit. Like I literally have open water, like looking out into the ocean Vista, like I can do anything. And then at the same time, I was also very conscious about, okay, if I want to take a next step towards something, I don't want to feel like I'm locked into that decision again, because I feel like that's what law school felt to me. Like I like the bar to entry is so high and that you're so [00:16:00] committed once you get there. Like I, you know, I thought I wanted to be a career coach for lawyers. That was one of the journeys I went on during that time. And I was like, well, and you know, you start thinking, oh, as a lawyer brain, perhaps like, I need all these certifications and like all these things and more money in time.
And I was like, no, no, I'm just going to take like bare bones, life coaching, like thousand dollar course, because if I hate it, it's not that much to let go of it. And I think that gave me permission to be like, I tried it. Not for me at this point in time, maybe down the road, but not now. Next. And that's, you know, you, I think I had forgotten along the way to try different things and not get committed to the, the result like detached from what the outcome would have been. But also knowing at the end of the day, I was like, can't live like this forever. Like gotta eat at some point! But also like making it my job to figure out kind of what I wanted [00:17:00] to do next. And I took nine months to kind of sort that process.
Danielle: Yeah that's so encouraging though, Jamie, because I think there might be people listening right now that they're like, I'm in that season right now like maybe they've been laid off from a job, maybe they maybe they've had a business that has, has failed and maybe they, they want to do something else that, that wasn't maybe the thing that they were gonna, you know, go out and do. And so they might be in that season right now, figuring out what do I want to do? What would your suggestion be to them when they're trying to figure that out? Like when you were in that stage, is there anything that you wish maybe that you could have told yourself or anything that you would say to like look out for or to do differently? If you were to do it over again.
Yeah, a
Jaime: few things. I, I feel like I navigated this pretty well, but I definitely went down the rabbit hole a few times where I really got caught up in what other people were gonna think about me specifically, my friends who are still lawyers, that's a big one mate. And I [00:18:00] don't think it's limited to like professional- the old-school version of what a professional is. But that's definitely still a thing. I often will be like finished making a reel on Instagram yesterday and be like, oh gosh, if one of my partners at my old law firm looks at this, what are, what will they think of this? I'm like, I cannot even let my mind go there. I just don't. I cut it off at the source, but I think my advice is if you are in that season of trying something and it hasn't worked out or wondering if you should try something, there are so many things available at low costs these days, just to try. Like, if you are currently sitting in an office job, you hate and you're like, I want to be a copywriter freelance just take a copywriting course in the evenings or something like that. And actually see, because I got very caught up in like, this is what I think I want to do. And then when I went to do the thing, I was like, it's actually not what I [00:19:00] like doing at all. I just liked the idea of what I think that this is.
But do I want to sit down and like write copy for other people's websites? I'm not, you know, I didn't like it. It's when I thought I wanted to be a career coach for lawyers, I actually thought about what that marketing would look like. And I think my brain for better, for worse went to the place. I do not feel comfortable pitching myself to lawyers and I'm actually leaving this typical form of law because I don't really like hanging out with all these people every day anyway. So why am I going to have them only as my clients and that's not, not maybe it is a, you know, slight to lawyers, but we're a very specific kind of group of people a lot of times. So they weren't fitting into the clients that I actually wanted to have.
So I think, and it's people have probably listened to this and they're tired of hearing it, but figuring out who you want to be hanging out with as your clients or your colleagues is, is a really [00:20:00] important aspect of like, the next step and like who that community is going to be.
Danielle: Absolutely. And I love that you, you had to go through those stages of like, oh, okay. I think I want to do this. And you're like, Nope, don't want to do that. And then pivoting, trying something else, doing it, figuring it out. And I think that's a lot of us as entrepreneurs. We're trying new things until we figure out, okay, what is the thing? And even when we find that thing and maybe we are successful in it, right? We create something. Then we're always thinking, okay, is this what I want to do long-term is this the like, future that I see for myself? Bring us kind of let's let's come to where you are today and the business that you run today and providing these contracts for small business owners as well. What has this been able to do? Because because now you run an online. Right. And so there's, there's a lot of excitement in that.
Jaime: No, no such thing as passive income, I will a hundred percent say that or the least, I haven't [00:21:00] figured it out.
Danielle: Just heard a podcast episode on this recently. Just about like a lot of things that are not talked about in this space of passive income and all of that, because there's a lot of things that need upkeep there's things, you know, you need, you need leads coming to you. All of those things. Walk us through that. If there's anyone who is in a position where they're like, oh my gosh, I'd love to build some sort of an online business, whether it be product base or templates like you do, or potentially like a course like we have, what are some of the things that you needed to learn that maybe you didn't really realize that you needed to learn and whatever, some of those challenges in learning all that.
Jaime: So I will back up and say with my comment, I mean, the reason why I started contracts market, there was two reasons. The first was I needed to be able to scale a business that time didn't equal money, which from a typical law firm perspective, that's exactly how the formula goes. And I also needed an outlet for something fun so that I could be part of the entrepreneur community that I'm like [00:22:00] obsessed with - podcasts - who they're listening to. And also just a way to like, serve the community I want to be part of. So I think the biggest thing about, yeah, it's not passive at all. Like that, it's a, it's a full time job on top of my full-time job.
And I think it's definitely. Doing for sure and then building out the systems that all go behind it so that you can, you can make money while you sleep while it's not passive, but it's, it's a nice feeling to wake up knowing I didn't do anything the day before and I still made money the next day, but I'm in that growth period right now where I have a lot of ideas and talking about just like shifting from one thing to the next, like I've got this business it's running- I won't say it's running itself, but I am able to step back from it a little bit. And, VA and the social media team who helps me with it, but you never just decided to do the one thing. Like now I've got this business and I'm like, okay, what's next? Like, I feel like that's just the entrepreneur brain and because [00:23:00] I've landed on this doesn't mean that it won't shift over time.
I think just keeping up with it all, like for my business, the templates are such that I need to keep on top of like recent updates. And I think that with the law, for, for that area of my business. But also just like the user journey, the experience like people expect a lot now, like mine's a high ticket item, so I hope to deliver a lot of value with it. But I think just keeping on top of all the trends, like I'm a lawyer, I'm not like a social media genius. That's why I've hired someone to do it. But there's just so many moving parts on top of the law firm.
Danielle: A hundred percent. Well. Yeah, exactly. And for you. And I think that's, I think that's a lot of entrepreneurs is they have something that they do that's like their kind of bread and butter, right. For you it's law. And then you have something that maybe you're scaling on the side that you're wanting to kind of like potentially take over or be in a good compliment for what you're, what you're doing [00:24:00] day to day. But like you said, there is a lot of upkeep, there's a lot of changes that are happening. And then when it comes to promotion and all of that, but I love that you said, I mean, one definite takeaway that I think is, you know, hiring people that are experts in what their expertise is in so that you don't have to as entrepreneurs, if we want to scale, or if we want to move our businesses forward, it's really tempting to be like, oh, well, I can learn that on my own and I can figure that out. You know, what were your advice be to someone who is, has all these big goals and these visions of like, where do they want to take their business? And they have all these ideas, but they're, they're bootstrapping it right now. And they're like, okay, I'm watching all the YouTube tutorial videos, and I'm trying to set up all the systems and I'm trying to making those investments. First of all, was that scary for you? Was it something where you're like, oh man, I'm having to make these investments to hire on these people [00:25:00] who can help me with this? Is that a, was that a scary step for you to make and what, ultimately, allowed you to make that with confidence?
Jaime: Yeah. I mean, I'm a Capricorn lawyers, so giving any form of control or like not doing it myself is very challenging, but I, my first hire was social media. Then my second hire the next day was a virtual assistant. And again, I had some savings saved up to launch this business, but my biggest advice to people is if they are bootstrapping, is that you will need something to start your business, even if it's 500 bucks, like you need something to get your website going and all those kinds of things, but also focus on the things that make you money. And so if that's creating one template and not launching 40 at the same time, which I should have just taken my own advice on that one, because I got a little delayed in like my launch, because I was working on all the things .
I probably [00:26:00] probably could have started with five solid templates. Like I have five templates in the shop that make the most money. Obviously hindsight is 2020, right. Start small, and then sort of your processes. So if I had launched with say my terms of use and privacy policy bundle my coaching bundle and whatever, the three other ones that make the most, at least I'm going, you know, and I've got something to work on, I've got something to promote. Versus launching with 20, and then they're all great templates. But if I just focus on the five, I probably would have launched a couple of weeks earlier and a couple of weeks can make a difference in revenue. You might you'll get your first sale faster, you'll get all those things and then you've got something to promote versus, again, cliche, but waiting till you think you're ready, like just start launching and talking about your product and, and letting people know, letting your community know. I think a lot of the times I was telling everybody I knew, cause I was like, that's a potential referral and if I want to get this business going while at the same time, I'm trying to add value [00:27:00] to it.
Yeah. I think just like start small because you need to sort out your processes. Like if you truly want to have like a template business or a digital product or something, you need to make sure that your backend systems are working smoothly and everything's going, so just having a few, few products, you know, that you're, that you've got dialed and then that system is done for the next one. It's so much easier to launch in the next one. And then you also know what your clients want. I launched a couple templates that didn't sell a one and I was like, you know what, take them out of the shop then, you know, like, yeah. Maybe that's not the best idea, but I'd rather be like a core group of solid templates that are really going for it and then if people request it, then I drip them out again. So yeah, just figuring out your processes and figuring out where your community is hanging out too.
It's really easy to get- I get really caught up in like, like Instagram engagement right now is in the worst and I'm like, well, what am I [00:28:00] doing? And then, make sure your email list is going and, and you're delivering value to your community and not getting super tied up in the metrics and stuff. Like I have really strong sales with, you know, a meager Instagram following, but I've built an affiliate network that actually is very strong. So thinking about how what's the best way you can build trust and confidence amongst the community of people that want, that need you, you know.
Danielle: I, I love that you touched on that and I'd love to kind of ask you a few more questions about that, because I think a lot of the times we think that, okay, in order to see success in, in my business, I need to do like X, Y, Z. And I see these people doing this. So I'm just going to try to like, copy exactly what they're doing, but in every single business, I mean, as much as, you know, you could have a digital shop, you know, just like Jamie, where you have templates or whatever, but your target market is going to be different. And your specific, [00:29:00] like people that you're trying to reach are going to be different. They're going to be on different platforms, all of that. So knowing, you know, who those people are, knowing what their pain points are and knowing how to deliver value, all those things are so key.
And then another thing that you said that I want to dive, dive into more. Affiliate marketing, because that's a huge, huge opportunity that I don't think a lot of people are taking advantage of because they just think, okay, in order to have success, I need to be this, you know, either a social media influencer, or I need to have this huge email list myself, or I have to have all these things in order to scale. So I would love to ask you, like, how have you been able to build that network? Has it been all like one-to-one connections? What has that looked like for you in scaling your brand?
Jaime: Yeah, a lot of it was just hanging out. I think it's much more so in the early stages when I had moved from Ontario, just so your listeners know specific to Canada now, but because of my affiliates, we're launching in the U S very soon, because that's [00:30:00] a request that we've had from my affiliates. So the initial, oh, there like pounding the pavement was like the virtual pavement. And I also launched March, 2020, which we all know what kind of storm that was. So I think at that point, you know, was out there in Facebook and Instagram and like really connecting one-on-one, but also providing value to people. Like people were really struggling, what does my contract would say about cancellations" and just showing up for them, but I would say now, I run ads though, my ads do really well, thanks to the social project, who manages them, them shout out to Alicia & Nikki. And so that's done really well.
So now we're just scaling that kind of marketing my email list that does, you know. It's just an ear way and path into people's ears and yeah, the affiliate marketing has been a game changer. I think, you know, you have to make, if you're interested in launching an affiliate [00:31:00] program, you have to make it worth people's while, because you're taking up valuable space on their Instagram feeds or in their stories, or however, they're going to promote your product and, and telling your affiliates and I'm working on this. I'm not sorted out the magic formula yet, but I've learned through a bunch of sales and different launches and things make it easy for your affiliates to sell your products. So we send out an email just saying, you know, here's an email. So for our sale, our latest sale, we send out an email swipe, copy that our affiliates could put into their email with links.
And like, this is how our top affiliates usually make the best sales. They pick two contracts out of the shop that they think their audience could really benefit from. So if you're a website designer, probably the website terms of use and privacy policies is a really easy sale for you to your community because everyone needs a privacy policy. So, there you go, and then you get your, your 20% or so commission on that. And for a [00:32:00] high ticket item, that's not a bad, you know, my average commission payments are over a hundred dollars, so it's not a bad little, you know.
Danielle: And make it worth it. I think that's the other point too, is like making it worth it.
Jaime: So it is 10% off a contract. Like that's not going to do anything for anybody in terms of an affiliate commission. Cause it's kind of a one and done. Yeah. So you have it, cash, cash is king.
Danielle: Totally, totally making it worth it. Yeah. Making it worth it for your affiliates and then making it worth it for their communities. And then, so it's really figuring out putting yourself in their shoes and like what would be incentivized to them, right? Yeah. Because especially, and it depends cause affiliate obviously affiliate, marketing's going to be different depending on what your product or your services. So if you bet for you, Jamie, most of your affiliates are also business owners. So for you, it's like your affiliates. They might have their own stuff that they're selling. So you need to [00:33:00] make sure that this affiliate, whatever it is is worth their time to be promoting it as well.
Jaime: And how, like down the matrix, do I provide value to the affiliate to provide value to their communities so that they look good in the eyes of their community and it keeps flowing. So I also think I learned this in Lala land. Is that have your referral partners? You know, when I was a lawyer working in condo development and real estate and those kinds of things, or even with businesses, like I'd go to the bank and then I'd have a referral partner at the bank. And the real estate agent who is feeding me all the real estate transactions. So go be very specific and who you're targeting, targeting as your affiliates. Like some of my greatest affiliates have their own courses where they're teaching people how to build a business. And as a foundation of that, they will have me come in and be a speaker for a fee to [00:34:00] speak to their audience because they've taken the guesswork out of that aspect of building a business by having a lawyer product available to help support them on their journey. So kind of really thinking about those different pro partners and not trying to be everything to everyone, like you're on my Instagram, you know, I'm not for everybody. I'm not like out there with, you know, crazy viewpoints and stuff, but some people really wanted traditional lawyer and I'm not for them. So go look for those referral partners who don't want something so traditional. And find your community that way.
Danielle: Absolutely. Absolutely. And then also like building those relationships and like something that. Love about you, Jamie is that you're so approachable. You're so down to earth and it's, I think that has just served you so well in your business because, you know, I think maybe it comes naturally to you or maybe it doesn't, you can share that with me, but building those connections and fostering those relationships is so important when it [00:35:00] comes to referrals and it comes to like affiliates or whatever that is. And so what would your advice be for people who yeah, they're like, okay, I want to find affiliates, or I want to find people that can be referral partners to me. What are some of your tips on, I guess, how to find those people and then how do you start that relationship? Because some people might be like, well, do I just pitch them out of nowhere? Like, how does that work? So how did you go about that?
Jaime: Yeah, I'm not a cold pitcher and I'm not also not an exchange pitcher, if that makes sense. Like, you did this for me. I do this for you. Like I maybe it's my own like imposter syndrome. Maybe that's not the right word for it, but I just feel like if I can add value to someone's day, then I want them to work, send value my way or something like that. Like I'm always trying to figure out, I never really asked for the sale. I mean, it's very uncomfortable for me. Or like ask someone to be my affiliate.[00:36:00] Usually it comes from like a natural relationship, but I think you have to yeah. Just be authentic about it. And I hate using that word, but like, for instance, yesterday I had a call with someone and they had some questions about a certain thing and then they put me on the spot about pitching them to my network of colleagues and have already followed up in an email about it. And I'm just like, I don't know your services. I know you as a person, but yeah. That's a lot to ask me to vouch for you when I don't really know you or the value you provide.
So if you're trying to pitch to somebody like I've sent contracts to who I think will be great referral partners and say, you know what, here's the contract for your business that I think would be best for you. Take a look at it. If you want to use it, go for it. And if you think it adds value to your communities, share that, like let them know that I'm here and that would be my like coldest pitch ever, but I've given them a lot of value in doing that. [00:37:00] And I've only done it with very specific people. Otherwise everything has come really natural.
Danielle: I love that. I love that there's like the yeah different personalities for different things. Right. And I think that too, the biggest takeaway that I took from what you said was building that relationship first and building that trust I think that's like the really key piece that I always suggest for people when they're thinking about, you know, okay. I want to work with this person, or I want to, whatever that is, maybe you want to do a pitch or whatever. And not to say that cold pitches never work. I think it's just the way that you go about it, that's the important part. How are you set? What does that email look like? Does it look like a copy paste email? Because that's how they're going to read it and they're probably going to ignore it or can they tell that you've done your research? Can they tell that you care about them as a person or as a business?
And so I love what you said about that. Cause it's like, but I took away from that is yeah. Build that trust, build that relationship. And a lot of times, a lot of that is going to happen [00:38:00] naturally. And if you do go to pitch, make sure that they know more about who potentially who you are, but then also they know the value that's going to be for them as well and I love that you already have that built into the foundation of your affiliates as you have that high value for both them, but then also for their community, because people, people want to, they're not only always going to do it just for the money. They want to know that they're going to be helping their community, whether it be someone, maybe it's an influencer promote promoting a product, but they want to know that their community is taken care of it. That there's value for them to
Jaime: totally it's back on them. The thing about cold pitches is they do sometimes work. Like you said, I cold-pitched probably Canada's biggest influencer in the like blogging business space and I got really far down the process in terms of being in their community and ended up not working out, but it also it was [00:39:00] like, you know what? I actually went down that process. I'm not talking Forbes magazine covers here, but like, you know, try the cold pitch, but make sure that you can back it up with, like, I've been following you for awhile, our community, this is how our communities vibe, this is how I can add value that you can't provide. Like, for me, it's pretty specific. Like I'm a lawyer and I can give legal advice, which you cannot do as as a non lawyer. But there are other ways, like if you're a social media if you're trying to get in front of them with your content or to represent their brand or something, like show them, actually show them how you provide value versus Hey, let's connect, and I really like you, you know, that just doesn't work time blogs, you better be showing how you're bringing value to me.
Danielle: That's that's so important, Jamie, because I think that a lot of it can be so vague. And that's what scares people, I think like as a business owner, if you're a business owner and you [00:40:00] don't have a lot of times, if you're pitching someone that you know, that doesn't have a lot of time, you know, they're a busy person, you have to be clear and you have to be specific because if you just throw out, Hey, I'd love to connect. There's always that. Okay. What is it?
Jaime: What awkward sales call, where you're sitting there being like, they, I don't want to be here for enough to get on the call with you.
Danielle: Yeah. And maybe you do have really good intentions. Maybe you are trying to bring value to them. What maybe you do have a really good idea that would be beneficial to them, but they don't know that because. If you've been in business for any length of time, you've had those bad experiences where you've had that person cold pitch you out of nowhere, you're feeling uncomfortable, whatever that looks like. And so it's important to, to recognize that other people have had that happen to them. So when you go to pitch, it's like be clear. What are you wanting to, do you have a specific question? Do you have this? Do you have that? Or there is a way you want to work together that's going to bring value to [00:41:00] both of you and then make sure it's personalized and make sure it's not just a copy paste
Jaime: and you get their name right. And spell it, right? Yeah. As a Jaime, get all this spelling's wrong. And I like to say it doesn't bother me, but I'm like, all you had to do is check my website. And I've got, Hey, Brian's so many times, I don't know if there's like a Brian, like, I don't know where Brian's coming from, but I get, Hey Brian, at least a couple of times a month. I'm like, there must be something going on in my SEO.
That's hilarious.
Danielle: I really wonder where that's coming from, but it's so true. And it's funny because people, yeah. People email me too and it's like, hi, and then. It it, you can tell it's brackets and like my Instagram handle or something like that
Jaime: percentage sign, first name, percentage sign. I'm like stuff happens in email list. I get it. But if you're really trying to get space in someone's business, but if double check these things
Danielle: and if you're trying to pitch someone specific. Then you have to make sure it's an authentic, [00:42:00] specific email to them. And it's not just copy paste because people are going to ignore it faster than
Jaime: I get so many "I checked out your profile and you get great content." I'm like, I'm so sure.
Danielle: Exactly. Oh, that's so good. Okay. How, I don't know how the time has gotten. So incredibly quickly, but I have a couple more questions for you before we end off. So one is your best advice to someone who's just getting started, they and make, or maybe they're a few years in, but they're feeling a pivot coming, cause I feel like you've, you've kind of gone through like a few different iterations of what you do. And so what would your advice be for them? Not specifically on like what to do, but I guess like where their mindset needs to be at, because, you know, you launched during a pandemic, you have, you know, pivoted your business, you've continued to evolve it. So what has, what has helped you in, in that growth [00:43:00] specifically? Where's your mind have to be at to kind of experience that growth and go with the changes that come?
Jaime: I think just not getting too attached to the final outcome, because if you are in a point where you need or want to pivot. You don't know what that's gonna look like. So you might end up in a totally different realm, but it feels right. Or you go down a path which you really, really were attached to the final piece and it just doesn't feel right. Or it's just not working financially, emotionally, whatever. There's always a next you'll figure it out.
Danielle: So good. So good. And then my next question for you is what is, what are you most proud of, of your entrepreneurial journey thus far? You've accomplished a lot and you've overcome a lot of challenges.
Jaime: Yeah. I think just going for it, I feel like everyone's the biggest advice I hear is like start before you're ready. And I think that's true to a point, but for me, I'm just proud that I actually kind of [00:44:00] didn't give too much thought to what other people thought of my business and just went for it and was able to make decisions along the way that worked best for me and my business and the very clear way I wanted my life to play out in the sense of what I can, what my day to day looks like.
Danielle: Okay. How can everyone find you online? How can people connect with you? Get your contracts, all of that someday. We're going to have you back on the podcast, but we'll actually get into like the nitty-gritty stuff. But today I wanted you guys to meet Jamie and the amazing person she is. And just hear more about her journey, because I think it's really inspiring. So tell, tell people where they can find you and connect.
Jaime: So I've never said this on a podcast. You can now find me on Tik TOK. I don't know how I feel about it.
Danielle: Jaime! You've gone to the dark side, I love it
Jaime: but I'm, we'll see. We'll see. That's all I will say about Tik TOK. I don't know how to do any of the videos, so, and no, I'm not dancing or anything.
Danielle: [00:45:00] But I think it's great. I think it was great people that are, they can do it. I love it.
Jaime: Yeah. I'm I'm trying. And probably Leisha, Nikki don't know that yet, but I am hanging out in Instagram, but if you want, you know, the reels and the Instagram is fine and there's lots of value there. But my email is, is where we send updates on contracts, blog, posts, that kind of stuff. You're the first one to know when we have a sale and sometimes some juicy stories.
Danielle: So good. So good.
Jaime: So, so you on my website contract www dot the contracts market dot com
Danielle: awesome. Awesome. I love it. And we'll put all the links for how to find Jamie in the show notes as well. So you can always check that, but thank you so much for being on it was so great to chat with you, so great to just get to know more of your journey and thanks for sharing all of your tips and also just, yeah, being authentic with what it takes to grow in scale and online business, so
Jaime: right back. Gotcha. Because your community is what got me [00:46:00] really embedded in the community here on this coast, for sure. So thank you for that.
Danielle: Thanks Jamie. We'll talk to you soon.
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